Triangles, Compasses, And God: Finding Faith With Doug Booker
For some people, it takes the darkest moments of life to see the lighted path to God. Such is the story of today’s guest on Living A Better Story. Joining host Chad Burmeister is Doug Booker, founder/owner of Booker Leadership. Doug talks about his journey to finding faith and the trials and tribulations he endured along the way. Doug has authored numerous works where he offers insightful advice to leaders in his book, Significance Starts Now, and enlightening guidance in Triangles, Compasses And God, which he discusses in this episode. Learn all about Doug’s interesting journey to finding God and his unique take on leadership and prayer.
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Triangles, Compasses, And God: Finding Faith With Doug Booker
I'm here with Doug Booker who probably figured out how to live a better story a long time ago because he's been at it for years with Booker Leadership. He's written a couple of books. I'm going to let him define it. He calls one of the books his little guidebook. We'll have him explain that a little more and then another one on significance. Doug, welcome to the show. Thanks for being here.
This is great. I'm looking forward to this. When I checked out your bio I was like, "This guy and I have some things to talk about."
It's the gut punches in life that I’d like to get through halfway through these conversations because those are the ones that give us the character and usually become the thing in our lives that change everything. I was in a head-on car accident many years ago on July 5th. I never tell it like that. I minimize it and think, "I was in a little fender bender in an intersection." The guy was going 70. I was going 20. It's a 90-mile an hour combined impact. My friend got plucked from the car out of the front seat. I thought he was dead and I was driving. You're like, "What's going to happen next?" I walk up to him and his first question was, "How's my face?" I was like, "Brian's okay. He's going to make it."
He gets in the helicopter and an Air Evac out and he had a woman holding his hand the whole time. I called him later and I'm like, "Are you okay? You were Air Evac to Phoenix." He was like, "What happened? Who was the woman in the back of the helicopter holding my hand the whole time?” It turns out there was no woman in the helicopter. He had an angel in his room for 3 or 4 months. He doesn't appreciate that sort of thing so he put a Bible on his dresser. I'm like, "Bring it on." Those are the kinds of stories we're going to dig into. What are the names of your book, Doug, so people can go ahead and open up their Amazon browser and start the purchase order at the moment?
As I was telling you, I've been in this leadership consulting coaching business for many years since I left the military. Pretty quickly within about eight years, I figured out if you're going to be famous, you got to have a book. Back then it was a little bit of a big deal. Now, there are so many. I did my first one, which was called Teaching Fishing Leadership. I won't get into all that whole thing but I've got five books on leadership. No masterpieces yet. They're books that I use as references to teach from and that kind of thing.
God came in alive big time years ago. That's when I wrote this book called SIGNIFICANCE Starts Now where I identified eight principles that we could talk to deeper. It was about how do you measure your own significance aside from God himself? I put eight principles in place. The last one of significance in my mind was what I call my little guidebook. It's called Triangles, Compasses and God. Before you buy or order any books, I don't have masterpieces but they're not expensive. Hopefully, there's a whole bunch of good teaching in them but we'll see.
Significance is a tough question. The most important one is what does God think? God made you. Don't worry. You're already a ten out of a ten. That's the punch line.
There is no argument here.
Let's go back and rewind the tape to younger. A lot of times we put on a mask or we mold to the world around us from our parents, our teachers, our pastors or whoever we interact with. The best tell of who is Doug Booker goes back to your 5, 6, 7 and you follow a certain path. What was that for you? Where were you in the world? What were you doing at that age?
When you first started into that, I was going to say to you, I am serious to use one of my principles in the SIGNIFICANCE book. One of the eight is transparency. That's one of the dynamics that got into my head many years ago because I have been through three divorces in life. One of those was a very powerful experience where God's grace found me somehow. I'm not going to dive deep. Let me answer your question. Going way back, I tell people all the time I was from a little town of 5,000 in Lexington, Missouri. I've told people forever. It was a leave it to beaver existence. We weren't rich but we weren't poor. It was a wonderful growing-up period.
Fortunately, there was a military college in my hometown where you could go to junior college for dirt cheap. That's where I got into ROTC and eventually in the military. The last 35-plus years have been my military time and then my leadership consulting time. Leadership has been my main theme but its wide significance came about. The one thing in my coaching that I saw since I left the military and realizing the rest of the world is like, “If you're the best welder, you get to be the leader welder. Here are your ten people. Go screw them up.” We do leadership all wrong. We don't measure. There's all that kind of stuff. That's what I did with this book. I said, "How does somebody measure other than God doing His own measure? How do you measure yourself?" That's why I picked these eight principles and use them.
When you're younger, you're in a town of 5,000 people. Did you play with snakes? Did you play in the river? What was your deal?
If you go way back, it's hard to remember much but I can remember in general as a kid, probably less than a block away was woods that went forever. There was a creek that went through the woods forever. There are probably 4 or 5 of us that lived down there. We are following the creek, playing in the woods, rolling around and getting in trouble here and there. That was my world. A lot of us, do with our kids anymore. I remember as my kids were growing up, I'm saying, "Don't you want to go play in the woods?"
What role did you find yourself playing there? People sometimes have kids or maybe they're trying to figure out what they should be doing in their career. They're in their young twenties. If you think about who you were as a kid, that gives you some true north of the path you should be on. Like you, I led people. We'd have people over at the house. We'd watch a boxing match with Evander Holyfield and Mike Tyson. They all came to my house. We weren't going to the other kid's house. When you were in the woods, you were probably leading the pack, "Let's go over here. Let's do this. Let's do that." That's interesting to tie those two threads together. I find a lot of people who are incongruent with what they're supposed to be doing, with what God built them to do is that they're not living to their true selves that they were when they were younger.
It's a real dynamic that the only way you figured that out is put in your ears and time. It's like that old phrase about work in your passion. There's so much reality to that. I deal with that a lot in my leadership consulting as leaders deal with their people, where people are miserable. They're putting in their time. They don't like their job. It's just a thing. I've been so fortunate and blessed in that sense. The military work for me. I enjoyed it and then doing this coaching consulting. I never much had a job that I didn't like or couldn’t appreciate. There were times as an infantry officer that I didn't like what I was doing but it was still something I wanted to be doing.
I was in Lexington, Kentucky where the Noah's Ark Museum is. That was something to see. It's a big door. It said, "This is the Jesus door. All come through me." It makes you physically see this life-sized door that's probably a story tall. It’s maybe 2 storeys, 20 feet or 30 feet tall. You're like, "That's the door."
That's on my bucket list. I want to see that thing. We live in what's called a life care independent living facility. Right before the pandemic, about four of them took a bus trip up there and they came back raving about that.
I was supposed to go with my wife. She had a coughing fit. In these post-COVID days, you can't complain of a coughing fit. She got tested twice. She's like, "I'm fine. Usually, I'm not coughing." It was bronchitis. You wouldn't believe it. It was me, solo. When I'm solo, it's like going to a shopping mall. You're in and out. From the Lexington days, 5,000 towns, you're the leader in the group in the woods to the military to now. There have to be a few challenges that you faced in life that gut-punched you. Can you share one of those that you're comfortable sharing? How does that looking back become the thing that's changed everything for you?
You just described what it is. It was the hinge point of everything. Maybe the easiest way to say this is in that little town, mom and dad had us in Episcopal Church every Sunday. I say we played a game and to some extent, that's exactly right because it was just going. I enjoyed it. It was a good time but the whole God thing was just a concept. There wasn't any relationship. I'm sure they did their best to preach all that but it's like, "You didn't." I take off in life and I married my childhood sweetheart. We dated as a freshman in high school. She was in eighth grade. It was this perfect thing. She was a brilliant, wonderful person. We go off to the military.
SIGNIFICANCE Starts Now – How We Live Our Lives Matters!
The short story is I had both my kids in Fort Lewis, Washington. I go to Fort Benning, Georgia for the Officer Advanced Course thing. Keep this in mind. God's not in the picture yet. Grace hasn't found me somehow. I wake up on Sunday morning. I got a call. It's my best buddy across the street. He said, "Doug, you better come over here. Your wife's over here." I went over there. I realized she's not there when I go there. She's sitting in the Indian stone on top of the sofa telling the story of how she's the Virgin Mary and our son is Jesus. Mental illness set in, in the middle of nowhere. It was brutal. She went through everything, every kind of treatment. She still deals with it now. For about eight years, we went through the highs, lows and all that. It ended up in divorce because it became a thing. When she'd come back to being good, everything's good. When she'd crash, suicide was in the picture and threatening the kids. None of this is meant to talk bad about her.
We have a friend of the family who is similar. I remember her as a kid. She's a beautiful woman and the perfect person.
That was her. We're not to the thing yet. The thing is yet to come. When she kept doing this, I said about three times before I finally did. I said, "We don't know what's causing this. The next time this happens, I'm going to go through with the divorce." When she'd break down, she'd be convinced it was about us near the end. I did but in my mind, it was an unfortunate thing. I'm playing it down like you were talking about. It happened. I got married again within 14, 15 months. I can tell you I looked at it like it was just a thing. It happened but mom and dad were these perfect role models with marriage. I was like, "That's how you're supposed to be.” I need a mother for my kids who were 8, 9, or something like that.
I was married. It was a seemingly perfect thing. She loved them. They loved her. She couldn't have kids. It was ideal. I labored and four years down the road, she suddenly was like, "I don't want to be a mother and a wife anymore." That ended and now is when the real key thing happened. Within 1.5 to 2 years, I'm married again. This time, without going deeply into it, it was the biggest mistake in my life, as far as who I chose. I made lots of bad decisions but it was brutal in the sense that I ended up with bankruptcy, divorce and foreclosure of the house. There were drugs in the picture. It was bad. I pretty much lost both of my kids who were junior and senior in high school at this point. It's the chaos of what was created.
The wonderful thing that came from this was it was one of those things. This was the worst time of my life, which would keep me to some degree from ever going back starting all over again but it was the best because I met this humble insurance salesman guy one day. I invited him over to the house. In one sense, I don't know why because I didn't have a dime on me. Everything was going terrible. I couldn't have bought any insurance, but I know God had him there. He knew the insurance I needed was God. He pretty quickly rebuilds when he got there. He was a preacher. He didn't have a church but he had a home.
This is why my guidebook is called Triangles, Compasses and God because you probably have seen the triangle where God's up there, you and your spouse or significant others down there. He drew that on the spot. I wasn't there either yet but when he said that, it clicked for me. That was the end of that. It was a very bad thing. For the next 5, 6 months, I was pretty much homeless. I'd go to his house about twice a week or more. We sit in front of his computer, talk to God, ask questions. He'd look it up on the Bible and on the computer. One day it was like, "There really was a Jesus. He did die.” Everything shifted at that point. I had to learn a bunch from the next 4 or 5 years while I was figuring things out. That was the point where it all changed for me in every possible way.
I got the most goosebumps I've had all day and I've had probably 3 or 4 interviews so far. You may not have even realized you said this, "The insurance I needed was God." That's what you recognized. That's a powerful blog post that needs to be written.
It really was. As I looked back later and I told that story to people like Ronnie, it was that guy's name. I said, “I am sure he knew the insurance that I needed at that time.” That's why he quickly went down that road. We sat there, started talking and the conversation kept ongoing. I barely was keeping the leadership because I was in the leadership consulting stuff by this point. I was at a point where it's starting to go pretty well and this hurt bad. I got back on my feet with that and kept it going for the last 10 or 15 years or whatever it's been.
I was listening to an Audible book on a walk. It got me thinking about this triangle thing and what I did with that and I’ll try to convey it. Whether I do or not, I'm not sure but if you know the triangle with God at the top and you're down there and the way that typically is your spouse. In my mind, that's everything else on this Earth. It could be a job, hobbies or other people. Whatever those two things are you're working with or more than two, they got to all be working towards God. I remarried again years ago. We met on a Christian online dating site. She's got where she accepts me saying it but I've never been with somebody I'm more different from, but because God's in the picture, it's been a piece of cake. It's been great. It's made all the difference in the world in that sense.
I'm curious and this one's not scripted so we're going off-script since you have a masterclass at this. When did you learn to pray? How do you pray? How often do you pray? Talk to me about what prayer does for you and your family?
My whole leadership world from very early on became about your skillsets and such, but it's all about relationships. As God came into the picture for me, I was wired. I was like, "God, Jesus, relationship." I'm still trying to unpack that, figure that out and convey it somehow but everything is about the relationship.
What role does prayer play in your life and your family?
I have a lot of hang-ups with traditional religion and all that sort of thing. Very quickly on, I realized the significance of my relationship with Jesus. I don't care about denominations. I still bounce around between churches of denominations. I'm looking for somebody that feeds me, where I can keep learning and all that. Prayer to me, I see so much of it like it's this thing you do. For me, it's not that at all. I almost discount the word prayer in the sense that for me, he sits right here. We talk all the time. I don't have a need to set aside some specific time because it became fairly quickly that I didn't have trouble remembering to talk to him. We talk and I could be wherever. I'm not trying to portray that for 24 hours but a lot. It's a constant dialogue. Part of that probably is because my first wife was Catholic. I learned a lot about traditions and Episcopal Church is that way too. It's like world prayers and all this thing. I don't like the idea of, "If you go do your twenty minutes, then that's good." I don't like programs. I don't like things that concrete. It's the relationship for me.
That's one of the reasons I went to Atlanta, to Charlotte and then to Lexington. I met with a customer. She brought the granddaughter along for lunch. The granddaughter said, "I'm not a huge fan of organized religion because the pastor puts his own spin on the message." She was frustrated by that. It's been more pronounced over the last couple of years, probably than ever, at least in America that I've seen. I could understand why that would be not good. Even similarly, I went to a Lutheran church when I was a kid and there were our own traditions and beer happening sometimes on weekends with some of the people, luckily not the kids but certainly the adults.
There was a lot of traditional stuff and you're right. It's the relationship when you can talk to God. John Denver wrote a song and it says, "Talk to God and listen to his casual reply." If you think of someone like John Denver, we know a guy named Robert White, a friend of our family who knew John Denver. He was best friends with him. He said, "Chad, when he explained it to me, he would see these words in the air and he'd pluck them out. It was God talking to him. Talk to God and listen to his casual reply." It's a casual reply. It's not usually a block in the head. I remember a few months ago, I was at my parents' house, staying in my room when I was a kid. I looked out the window and the trees were blowing more wildly than I had ever seen as a kid. My dad went out on the deck that night for ten minutes and watched it. I'm like, "God, I get it. You're telling me something here. You're helping me pivot my pathway forward. It's understood." Sometimes it's more than a casual reply.
It goes back to this triangle thing and that line between myself and God, Jesus is the only thing that matters. Everything else like denominations, pastors and church is a human concoction. It could be concocted by great people, great intentions, all of that. I pile my parents into that same angle of the triangle there. That's why I called this book Triangles, Compasses and God. My parents started out. I didn't think of it that way back then but my parents were up there. They were at the top. They were my God. They were my compass. They were at the top of the triangle.
That makes sense until you become an adult and maybe you develop a relationship with Jesus. They were there and they were these wonderful people. Thank goodness. Before they passed away, all of this happened to me. I got the right one in that position and put them down where they belong. Even as you think about that, everybody besides him is going to let you down, die on you or betray you. I look at it as just me and the rest of us knuckleheads out of here. The only thing that matters is me being here.
When I was growing up, I ended up getting a mohawk in my neighborhood. My dad was a doctor. We lived in a nice neighborhood in Castle Rock where they play this golf tournament. Here I am with the nose ring, three earrings and a mohawk. It was to be seen and heard. My grades were always good. It took me a while to realize. In fact, it took this app. There's an app online called ONPURPOSE.Me. It helps you understand what your purpose is in two words. It puts all of these competing purposes and you go this one versus that one. It recycles some. It's a pretty complex algorithm. My end came to embracing grace.
I had the CEO of that company on. He's been doing it for years. When I got to embracing grace, I was like, "That is my purpose." I was always trying to please dad. Does he see me? If you can know that your dad's still your dad. Your mom's still your mom. My best friend is adopted. His real parents are still his real parents but not really. He also has his adoptive parents who love him beyond and to a level that's amazing. He went and finally met his real mom. He was like, "This isn't what it was cracked up to be." What I realized is that you've also got this other dad that's perfect. If you can align to that and go, "That's my real dad. These are my adoptive parents." I always ask this as the final question. We've already hit on some of it but based on our dialogue, you never know where it's going to take you. What role does faith play in your life and in your journey?
It's number one. It's everything. I'm still doing my leadership work. It's dwindling down. I'm doing a lot more virtual than the other in-work. I don't like to travel anymore. Because I wanted to stay in this little town where I live now, I took the job as a newspaper writer. I'm in charge of the page of this little bitty newspaper, which has been a blast because I'm meeting people. It's very self-serving on my part because I would go write people's stories, put them on the front page, but it’s because I want to meet people. There are so many different things I want to say. Everything hinges on God, Jesus and my faith. That doesn't mean at all that you wouldn't come across, be out there, doing anything and think that I'd like praying, praise the Lord. I'm not that way. At the same time, I'm going to always do something so you know where I'm coming from. That's my world.
Triangles, Compasses and God
Go to part two of the question in which you said, “Grace found me.” We didn't cover the answer to that. You came about faith halfway through your life. How did it tap you on the shoulder?
It tapped me on the shoulder by a guy named Ronnie. That pastor was how it happened.
He's the insurance guy that showed up in your house.
He's that guy. I started reading this book. What I took from at least part of this was that everybody has this. I don't remember what he calls it but you're in between. That's what I did with it. I had this period where I was leave it to beaver and then life happens. Eventually, grace found me somehow. That whole middle period of my existence is where all of the learning and growing in many ways happens. Back to the “grace found me” somehow, I liked that phrase. It's part of a song I heard in church one time. That's why I looked into it. The whole Born Again and all that thing bothers me because I locked it into what I call Church Camp God.
What I mean by that is I have this belief and I could be incorrect about this. I acknowledged that. I found God in the pit. I found him at the lowest point. Ever since then when I hear about people that give up on God or whatever you want to hear, what my mind says and my heart says is not bad on them. They just didn't have that relationship. It was just a thing. It was church camp, being saved or whatever. People say, "I've known God. I've been following God since I was six years old." I don't need to know the answer to that. I could never imagine not having God in my life. I fully expect that there are still going to be some pits. That's how life works but he'd be the last one I'd ever give up on because he was the one that got me out of it where my parents couldn’t. Nobody else could but he could. Faith is everything.
There's a guy I talked to from Boise, Idaho. I'm going to mix up his name so I won't even try. He graduated 130,000 people. He left LifeSpring, which is a mindset training kind of a thing. He said, "It's missing God in the middle." If you don't attribute it, you see NFL players that go, “First, thanks to God," a boxer or whoever. That's the right place to attribute. You realized, "You're a pretty incredible person." They're putting it in the right place. They have the right person at the top of the pyramid.
This guy, when he was talking about who's the audience of people he should serve, you have to make a living but God was moving him to go work with people in prisons. He worked with Crips and Bloods. First, he'd meet with the influencer in the prison and he'd get them through 12 weeks to 16 weeks of heavy couple hours a week. Then he finally got to a point where he could have both a gang of Crips and Bloods in the same room talking to each other, praising God together.
It's a program that's run for ten years since he installed it through five separate wardens. The wardens might try to kill off the program but the inmates say no because these are people who are in jail for life. They've done very bad things. A lot of people keep trying to tell me, "Chad, you need to decide who your audience is. Maybe they should have a lot of money and be entrepreneurs." I'm like, "Where does Jesus go? He goes to the pit. He goes to the people who have the biggest need. It's not the people who are already going to church every Sunday.” That's where I'm feeling drawn to play because I had the mohawk and the nose ring but I lived in a nice neighborhood, I got to experience what it's like to go down the path of, "Look at me. I've got a rooster haircut.” I understand. You've got tattoos all over your body. I got it. I was in the same boat. Mine was just that haircut.
We all got our own things like that. That's why we're humans and not God. We go down different paths and that's how it works. One thing I want to mention to you is I have tons of peace but at the same time, I'm completely healthy. I figure I got another 10 to 15 years, good Lord willing, to produce and do something. My eyes are so open but it only has to encompass a couple of things. One is it has to encompass helping God's people. It means serving. I don't know what that looks like. Unfortunately, because I screwed up so much stuff in life, I still need to be making some money so it needs to involve a little bit of money but I mean a little bit. I don't care about being rich or anything like that. I want to be able to get by, pay my bills, take care of my wife, and that kind of thing.
I have this feeling that somewhere in the next few years something's going to play out. Maybe it's some big shift. I was talking to an old-timer here. He's an old guy. He'd been doing all kinds of things in life. Years ago, he's got starting to fix and repairing windmills but it's a thing. He doesn't need to work. He just likes it. We talked about it and he said, "You could start doing that with me." I said, "Maybe we'll think about that. I can become the windmill guy." That’s a big shift. Let me say this to you before we end. These are the eight principles I'm going to tell you and whoever might be reading for a reason. Here were the eight I picked out, peace, forgiveness, circles, learner, transparency, thankfulness, love and relationship, and fruitfulness.
I pulled things from the Bible and different things. I'm trying to lock into what are the things we should be as a person? Leadership took me down this path. One thing we don't do in the leadership world is we don't measure. We don't say, “These are the ten things.” Leaders just wait. I try to get them to lock in on some set of things as a way of measuring. That's why I went down this path with this book. I'm pure people side of things. What makes you significant? The reason I read those was to say to you and anybody that it’s worth thinking about in terms of how do you measure your own significance. I'm not saying those are all right eight.
Maybe it's 5 of the 8 and you fill in the other three but can you put it in an Excel spreadsheet? Can you give yourself a 1 to 10 score and understand how forgiving am I? How loving am I? Do I have any flat tires in all of those eight areas? We're launching an app and it's been under development for months. That's why I asked the pray question. It's called 77Pray. Its intent is that it takes 64 days to build a habit. This is 77 days. It's significant because Matthew 7:7, "Ask and it shall be given to you." Genesis 7:7, which I learned at Noah's Ark gave me the chills beyond all chills. That was when Noah entered the ark with his wife, with the kids and their wives. Every 77 that keeps popping out to me is significant.
The app reminds you first thing in the morning. Did I pray? Check the box. Did I read a Bible verse? It randomizes the Bible verse and puts it in there every day. Did I act? Did I share this app with someone else? You click a button and it says, "Text someone. I've been thinking about you lately. Check this app out. Tell me what your thoughts are." We've got two sentences pre-programmed. We share it on Facebook, LinkedIn or Instagram. All that's automated. Did you pray at the end of the day? For coaches that I've talked to, they may be working with their client on alcoholism, abuse, being joyful or something. There's the ability to add as many other tasks in the day that you want. It then tracks it.
We've been pushing this out for about a couple of months. When it goes live, I get a feeling that a lot of these shows that I've been on because I'm doing a lot. We've recorded about fifteen. We've only launched ten. I'm like, "There's this tribe of people who want to impact the world.” I'm optimistic because God gave me this app. I'm optimistic that it's going to cause more connection directly to him. The church is optional. The church can be good, but when you find the right pastor, the right message and the right group of people, it’s hugely beneficial but let's start with the connection first, and then you can go find your tribe called the church.
I've been hearing you talk about that on your show. I've listened to a few of them. I've been paying attention to that. I'd be curious. It's not out yet.
It's close. I've been living it for many days. I could delete it and I'd be fine because I'm so tuned in to this new channel called GOD.fm. It's unhackable.
One of the things I wrote down I was going to mention is another thing we have in common. The reason the show caught my eye is because I figured out I was self-publishing and all that. When I moved into this facility where I am, there are lots of older people here. I'm the youngest guy who lives here. Before the pandemic and we were socializing a lot, I'd started talking to people and getting them to sit around a table. All of them sit in their room. I get to certain people, "Tell your story." I've been trying to tell them that some of this is self-serving. Part of me hopes that at some point some of the people here will be like, "Why don't you write my book for me?" I said, "Yes, I would love to spend the rest of my days telling people's stories." I've done that with about three people. We have that in common. I'm passionate about people writing their stories and capturing stuff.
We're going to do chapters soon for the show. We're going to go film experiential exercises by Robert and his business partner. We're going to do twenty-minute, here's the talk. The facilitator will bring people over to their house, their local church or wherever. They'll say, "Let's break out." They'll facilitate based on these experts who've graduated millions of people from their classes. It will be biblically based but also open. If you're a Hindu, you're welcome. Jesus didn't say you're not welcome here. Anyone's welcome. We've had all kinds of people come through. I'd love to keep that dialogue open once we develop the courses.
I love the challenge of God to share and be about God. I grew up in a family of cocktail drinkers. I spent a fair amount of time abusing it. I don't do that anymore but I still enjoy having a cocktail. There are people and you could be one as far as I know that's like, "You can't do that." I don't go down the road trying to argue that.
I'm in the exact boat. We all have value in ROI. You meet a pretty girl because you're drinking a few. Over time you go, "I get a hangover. It's not that off but I do enjoy it." I'll go in spurts. I'll go 90 days. I'm like, "This is awesome to not even have any drinks." I'm still not to the level where it's all or none. It is nice to have a good cocktail sometimes.
Honestly, I've told my wife this a few times. She's like eight years older than me. We joke about this. I was like, "If you kick the bucket, one of the things I would do is I'd start a Bible study in a local bar because I like the challenge of things differently."
Finding Faith: How do you measure your own personal significance aside from just God himself?
It's like going to the lion's den. That's exactly what you're supposed to do. It's fabulous getting to know you. Thanks for being on the show. We'll be in touch. Check out 77Pray. It comes out soon. I appreciate it.
Keep my number on your phone and call me if you get to Kansas City.
I'll do it. Likewise, if you come to Denver.
I got you. I enjoyed it. Take care, Chad.
Doug Booker, thanks for joining me.
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About Doug Booker
Work with organizations, teams, cultures and individuals in Leadership Development, Org Improvement/Development, Change Implementation and overall 'People System's! Assist corporations, communities, office staffs, business, churches, etc. Additionally authoring books (3 on Leadership); just completed fifth one 'Triangles, Compasses and GOD' in 2013. Love helping people, teams and management learn, think and grow.
